Q&A with Patty McCormack, star of ‘Morning’s At Seven’

‘MORNING’S AT SEVEN’: Patty McCormack. Photo: Maria Baranova.

By David NouNou

I recently had the good fortune to interview the delightful and charming Patty McCormack. The reason for jubilation is this is her first return to the New York stage since her 1955 triumph when she starred in The Bad Seed. She opens on November 15 in Paul Osborn’s classic Morning’s At Seven at the Theatre at St. Clements, 423 West 46^th Street in NYC.  She is part of an ensemble that includes Lindsay Crouse, Alma Cuervo, Dan Luria, Alley Mills, Tony Roberts, John Rubenstein, Keri Safran and Jonathan Spivey—a dream cast if ever there was one.

Most people know Ms. McCormack, thanks to Turner Classic Movies and its constant showings of the 1956 classic The Bad Seed in which she played the diabolical Rhoda Penmark. In the 1950s, Ms. McCormack was an original, when most kids played the saccharine sweet kids in movies and TV, she only looked like the other kids, replete with blond braids, bangs, pinafore dresses. In actuality in the film, she was the child from hell. She channeled an iconic and indelible performance that is still frightening and holds up to this day. She was one of the first child actresses to get an Oscar and a Golden Globe nomination in those competitive adult races.

What makes her career such an enigma? She had such an outstanding first outing but hasn’t played on the New York stage for 66 years and instead devoted herself to numerous TV characters. One might think that she might have grown up to be an older version of Rhoda, but instead she is an interesting and a lovable grandma that every child can dream of having. In fact, she is a mother of two, a grandmother of four, and then an actress. The following Q & A shows what a warm, upbeat, interesting and unpretentious woman she is.

StageZine: I want to thank you so much for doing this interview. I want to officially welcome you back to the New York stage in one of my favorite plays, Morning’s At Seven. What was it about this play that made you want to come back to New York?

Patty McCormack: Well, I think the fact that it was, first of all, the opportunity for so many older actors to be working in a project. It was unheard of, and also that it has been a while since the last production happened. I know that there’s been many.

There have been two, in 1980 and 2002.

Okay, 2002. Well, and I think what it was really was the fact that you get to a certain age and the Covid experience. I just wanted to take a chance and be brave because it has been a long time. I have done theater in Los Angeles, and on the road, and various places, but the New York stage is special. It was a scary thought to be working with all these wonderful actors, and pulling my own weight, and all of that. Boy, I have to tell you something does kick back in. Sort of a magical feeling does kick back in. I feel like we really have a good show.

You play the part of Esther or as she’s more commonly known, Esty. I find her to be the most complicated of the characters. What made you want to play her?

Well, actually, truth be known, that was the part that was offered. Alma Cuervo is Ida, and then we have the wonderful Lindsay Crouse. Esty was offered. I find her fascinating because they describe her or the father described all the girls a certain way in the play, and remember Esty was the smartest. I thought that makes sense why she and David came together in a funny way long ago. Although, he obviously changed somewhat during the years they were married because he seems to have gotten more curmudgeonly as time went by. Esther is very family-oriented, and yet lives apart because the husband. You know the storyline, but to talk about this psychology of her, I feel like she is the peacemaker in the family and is sort of the one they all go to for common sense. I feel like she has a good sense of humor, and she knows her sisters so well. She’s not neurotic. She’s quite grounded, and I think has a lot of joy in her in a funny way when she’s with her sisters. Yeah. I don’t know. I could go on and on.

Oh, you can go on as long as you want. Believe me. I’m so thrilled just to listen to you.

The longer we have the opportunity to do the show because I realized I think it’s five weeks ago that we had the meet-and-greet where we just met each other, and that we’re actually running now in previews is a miracle, first of all. Then secondly, the fact that each performance, you really do learn things. You learn more things about where the person is, and who the other people are, and the colors of the other people, and they find things. That’s the joy of doing theater. It never stops developing, I feel like. Yeah, and you get that from the audiences. They tell you-.

Yeah, how they respond to you.

Yeah, they tell you plenty. I’ve worked, but I’ve spent a lot of time with my family, my grandkids, like that. So at this point in time to be in New York, I think my grandsons are probably proud that I’m doing this. To be in New York doing this is just like a dream come true.

I’d love to be your grandson.

They’re so great. There’s four of them. My son had two sons, and my daughter has two sons. My oldest is 21, and the youngest is 13, and in the middle are the rest. It would have been very cool if they could come at some point, but they all have such commitments sports-wise and life-wise that I don’t know. We only get a day off. We get Thanksgiving off, and we get Christmas off, so it doesn’t leave a lot of time for playing. Anyway, maybe they’ll film it or something or maybe it’ll… something crazy, like it’ll go to Broadway.

Oh, believe me. That would be great.

Wouldn’t that be cool?

I know you’re rehearsing, and you’re performing, and God knows we need entertainment in the worst way in these times. What is it like really for you now, coming to New York to be on the stage in these very difficult times of the pandemic?

Well, there are a lot of rules that Equity has in place. Equity, the union, puts a lot of safety rules in place. When we’re not on stage, part of the routine is to wear a mask and unless you’re eating or working. They’re hanging all over in the back with our names on them. Most of the people who could got their boosters already, but everybody else has their shots.  The audience has to have their shots, have proof of shots, and so there are safety measures-

Thank God for that. Believe me.

Last year was like scary and for everybody. It was before we had the shots that people were really frightened, so slowly, slowly, it’s like we’re all adjusting to the fact that this isn’t going away so fast, but we’re finding a way to work through it. It’s coming to an end. You can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but we’re still in it.  You have to be careful.

What is it like for you, especially being a grandmother in these difficult times? Can’t be easy for you. I’m sure you didn’t see your children or your grandchildren in such a long time.

That absolutely happened. I mean people lost people in that time, and they couldn’t go to the hospital and be with them or go. It was a nightmare. What we’re doing now is to be a part of bringing a little joy and normalcy back. It’s really nice.

That’s wonderful.

It’s really nice. I can see all the masks in the audience. They actually sit through a whole thing with masks, and so the fact that they’re laughing at all is terrific.

The cast of ‘Morning’s at Seven’ with (far right) Patty McCormack. Photo: Maria Baranova.

Morning’s at Seven is one of the best ensemble pieces written, and you are performing with the most incredible of cast members. You’re with Lindsay Crouse, Alma Cuervo, Judith Ivey, Dan Lauria, John Rubinstein, Tony Roberts,  Keri Safran, Jonathan Spivey, and Tony actually plays your husband, David. What is that like to be in such a cast?

Oh, it’s wonderful. Anyway, David. You mean what’s it like to be married to Tony Roberts?

No. I know you’re not married to Tony Roberts. I mean Tony Roberts is literally one of Broadway’s pillars, but he plays the part of David, who is your husband in the show. With that whole mix of people from Lindsay, Alma, Judith, they’re all your sisters, and Tony plays your husband. That is a heady cast.

I know. I know. I know. It could make someone shrink in insecurity. I swear the bigger the people, the better the talent, and the bigger the people, the nicer they are and more helpful. They’re into sharing information and just helping each other. They’re just great. That’s all.

By the way, were you close to any of the cast members before you got into Morning’s at Seven that prompted you to come back to the New York stage?

Well, Tony and I shared a dinner for a mutual friend, Larry Guittard. I don’t know if you know him from the Broadway musical.

Yes, the Tony nominee from A Little Night Music.

Well, he’s been my friend for years, and years, and years. And he and Tony go way back. At Larry’s birthday a couple years ago, Tony was up there, and we sat next to each other. Dan Lauria and I go way back in time with, and he was the one that actually talked to Julian, the producer, about my being in it. He threw my name in. He knows so many people. He knows so many actors. He threw a few of us in there too as possibilities, and they decided that I was going to be Esty.

Excellent. By the way, who was the mastermind who brought this incredible cast together?

I guess it had to be Julian Schlossberg and [casting director] Pat McCorkle. Pat McCorkle, who nobody is mentioning, is the casting woman. I know she and Dan go back a long time, and I’m sure she’s worked with Julian many times, I’m guessing. I would say a combination of Julian engaged with Pat, and then I think that’s how it all came about or usually does anyway.

Being that you’ve been absent for so long from the stage, did you ever feel that you missed out on certain roles or you would have liked to have played a certain role that you missed out on?

It’s funny. As a young person in that transition period going from child actor to whatever, to being 13, whatever I was, 14, something like that, I remember auditioning for Enter Laughing in New York. You know how kid actors go through things? It’s not necessarily the same things, but there’s a difficulty in transitioning for whatever reason, insecurity or you don’t look like you used to or you feel like you’re ugly or whatever. Kids do that anyway, and kid actors….It’s probably a little more technicolor because it’s sort of how leaving a career early on and moving into another career. Then you don’t realize that, that happens periodically because the longer your work life is, the more transitions you make. You go from childhood to teenage to young mothers to older women to ancient women.

It’s a progression.

Yeah, it’s a progression. I auditioned for that, I remember, and then I had what they call a callback to come back again. That was Carl Reiner, right?

Yeah, he was the writer.

Carl Reiner, yeah. He was there. I chickened out. I didn’t go back. That was something that I did do. I mean other people go through other things. To avoid certain things, they use substances and whatever. Mine was an absolute sort of backing away and so, I didn’t.

This is where the enigma in your career comes. Now, this part of the interview is the real Patty McCormack that I’m going to get at. You were born in Brooklyn. You started your career as a child model, and in 1953, you were in a TV show, Mama with Peggy Wood.  You debuted in a Broadway show called Touchstone, which unfortunately only lasted a week-

Correct.

Patty McCormack as Rhoda Penmark in the classic film ‘The Bad Seed.’ Photo: Studio publicity shot.

Then came the great role of a lifetime, Rhoda Penmark in The Bad Seed. How did that come about?

Just auditioning with the rest of the kids that were around at that time. I remember it was an audition at the theater with Nancy Kelly and the director. It’s vague because it’s so long ago. Then I think it took a while that I found out that I really did have the job because I think something got released. Some publicity came out and said somebody else had gotten it. I remember being sad about that, which is interesting. It means that I liked working and that it was something I wanted to do.

Now, how did you juggle these two roles at such a young age in two different mediums? I mean you were on the stage at night. You were doing a TV show. You were only about eight or nine. How did you do that?

I have no idea. No. There wasn’t a lot of stress around it, like you have when you’re older. When you’re a kid, you’re really more in the present moment in a funny way. With that, it’s a lot easier. You just sort of do what’s in front of you. It didn’t seem hard to me. I was Ingeborg on the Mama show, which wasn’t a character in the book. It was a TV character, and they wrote it in as mama’s aunt. I was mama’s aunt, although I was eight and a half or nine.

Yeah, how did that work?

By some strange marriage that took place somewhere. We were Norwegians living in San Francisco, and so many good people were on that. Dick Van Patten was the brother and a sweet friend of mine as a kid and later was Kevin Coughlin, who played TR, also a part that was written for the TV show. We worked together into our early 20s, but sadly, he passed away young. Anyway, you go back, you can find a kinescope for any of this. It would probably be fun to see all the wonderful actors. Peggy Wood was the mom. Judson Laire, Rosemary Rice.  I’m mentioning people, I think, nobody knows anymore.

I mean it’s wonderful that you can remember them all.

Yeah, I really do. Dagmar was Robin Morgan, who became a big feminist writer. She was always so smart as a little girl, and she grew into a wonderful writer. Yeah, I’m reminiscing now. I’m sorry.

Don’t be, it’s great to bring up good memories. Parents are helicoptering their children these days. How did your parents feel about your playing this evil child for eight performances a week?

It’s strange. Well, I didn’t come from a show business family, and so it wasn’t planned that, that was going to be the journey. They didn’t sit around and say anything about my being in show business. I think it was a learning thing for everybody as we went along.

They didn’t realize how bad Rhoda was?

No, I think they did, but I had been working for a little while before that in other things, and I can’t really answer that question because I have no idea. It seems odd.

I mean Rhoda is sinister. She lies. She steals. She sets fire and commits murder. You were eight or nine years old. How did you tap into such feelings? How did these wrongdoings play inside your head? Were you able to distinguish Rhoda’s wrongdoing, and were you ever tempted to play on those feelings?

I know. I always go back to this. The director, who was Reginald Denham, was so good with me because he made what I did seem fun.

But did you understand what Rhoda was doing? You say it was fun, but what she was doing was really horrible.

Yeah, I don’t have the vocabulary to explain what’s in my head really precisely, but the director approached what I did by saying, “Rhoda is always right.” If you watch the film, which is pretty much the same performance, you can see that she has no qualms about going after what she wants, and she thinks anybody around her that doesn’t agree with her is questionable. You know what I mean?

Oh, for sure.

So I thought, “Wow, that was really a good thing to say.” But you want to know did I understand? You want to know did I focus on killing people?

No, no, no. I don’t want to say you went that far or set people on fire. I meant psychologically.

Don’t laugh, but I was an actress. I was an actress playing a part and so it would be like asking. Oh, let’s see. I don’t want to say it like this because it sounds like I’m comparing myself to her, but it would be like asking Meryl Streep if she ever thought that she should run England. Did she ever get confused in her mind about whether or not she was Margaret Thatcher?

But that’s Meryl Streep as Margaret Thatcher [in The Iron Lady]. We’re talking about a young girl who’s eight years old.

Well, that’s the principle. I was never tempted to confuse my psychology with the psychology of Rhoda Penmark.

Excellent. Really, thank you for setting me straight on that.

And to add something else too. If you realize who I was and how I went to that point of not showing up for the callback of Enter Laughing, it makes sense that I… You would have thought a different result would have happened. You know what I mean?

Yeah, but Rhoda would have definitely have gone for that interview and would have made sure she got the part.

Correct. She probably would have poisoned the other people who were up for it.

Did you have any schoolmates at this time that were scared of you?

No, no, because they knew me. I went to a few schools. One was a professional school called Willard Mace, and I also went to Professional Children’s School for… I think it was kindergarten. A lot of kids went there, but I actually switched over to a smaller school. All the kids who went there were actors, so nobody was impressed, and then later on, when we moved to California, I went to Saint Victor’s Catholic School. I guess it was sixth grade when I went there. I don’t think the school is in existence anymore. I think the church is still there, but not the school. All the kids in Los Angeles, I mean Loretta Young’s son went there, so nobody batted an eye when I was there. Loretta Young was there dropping off her son or picking him up or coming to an event. That was Hollywood, and Hollywood was not impressed. I didn’t have difficulty, but when we moved and I went back to school in Brooklyn in my teenage years, that was a little rough.

What made it rough? Because you were a celebrity?

Yeah, because they thought I was a celebrity, so they thought I was someone that wasn’t one of them, that kind of thing.

By the way, with what you know about Rhoda, would you have let your daughter play her in a revival?

In general, I didn’t want my kids to be in a grown-up career. I didn’t want them to be kid actors. I just thought it was one less thing for little people who aren’t developed yet to deal with. What I’m saying is not in relation to Rhoda. It’s in relation to being in a workforce. Because it’s a grown-up field, and you are treated and you’re expected to do things that are really mature. People lose money if you don’t come to the party, and so I just think it’s a thing that little people shouldn’t have to deal with. That’s my own personal opinion, but a lot of kid actors don’t feel that way. I always think little kids, they dream about different things they want to be, and one day, they want to be a baseball player, and the next day, they want to be [someone else].

It robs them of their childhood.

I always think just because your child says, “I want to be a doctor,” you don’t send them off to medical school. You know what I mean? You just let them ride that one out until you see where their leanings really are. It seems just premature, and some people get saved by it, so that’s not fair totally. I understand. I’m only talking about myself, but some people…

Now, in 1956, you did the movie version, and I thank Mervyn LeRoy for casting you in it because you really created, and he preserved what I consider one of the most shocking children in cinema. He immortalized this performance that is ageless. Your performance is impeccable from your pigtails to your bangs to crinoline dresses and the white socks, I mean that girl is scary. You did a performance for the ages.  What was that like in the ’50s when all the kids were portrayed as saccharine sweet to break the mold and be this demon child? You were the original and paved the road for bad behavior.

I have to say when you’re in it and doing it, you’re not really reviewing it. That’s your job. I can’t. I have no idea. I mean as I said, I actually enjoyed the journey like that. I did. I had fun doing that, and then I had fun doing Helen Keller. I had fun doing all the Playhouse 90s that went on. “Climax” was a show back then, “Kraft Theatre,” all of those different roles playing different children. It was really, really fun.

How did the stage version differ from the screen? I know in the screen version, they had to do certain things to Rhoda, but how did the experience differ from the stage to the screen?

Yes, correct. They had to abide by whatever the law was about murderers.

The Hays Code.

Yes, the Hays Code. Yeah. Murderers had to be punished for their deeds. Today, I guess they wouldn’t have to do that.

Which ending did you prefer more, the stage version or the movie version?

Oh, the stage. The stage version was so much fun. Yeah, because no one knew, and the mom dies because she shot herself. Then you hear the piano playing. You know, huh? Then out comes Rhoda and says that thing to her daddy who has no idea what’s been going on, and no one else does, only the audience. It was a chilling revelation because nobody knew in that scene, that last scene whether Rhoda had died from the overdose that her mom gave her. They talked about Christine’s death, and then I know Evelyn Varden, who played Monica, had a wonderful line. In that last scene, Monica wound up saying something like, “But you…” I can remember her melody in her line reading. Yeah, she said, “But you still have Rhoda,” like a kind of nice melody. Out, I come from playing the piano, and the audience sort of just was horrified. They did not like that.

Wow. Now, for your performance, you’re one of the youngest child actors to get an actual Oscar nomination. You were nominated. It’s an indelible performance. Now, just what did that Oscar nomination mean to you at the time? Did it have any significance? I’m assuming you were at the ceremonies.

Yes, my mother was there. My mother told me that this was a grown-up award, and I was in a grown-ups category, and I wouldn’t have to go up and get it because they weren’t going to call my name.

Wow.

I was relieved that I didn’t have to go up and get anything, but she did that, I think, to protect me in case I would have been sad or whatever.  I know that I was most thrilled with seeing Elizabeth Taylor at the rehearsal for being there because I had to do a thing with Jerry Lewis. I had a-

Really?

I think the clip can be found somewhere on YouTube.  We did a little routine. Take a look for it. It’s funny. He pretends he’s afraid of me, and I just am very serious.

So, did the loss affect you? I know if Rhoda would have lost, she would have pulverized Dorothy Malone in one way or another.

No. I didn’t really understand the honor. I didn’t really understand the level of importance because I was told it was a very special thing, but I couldn’t relate to it as an adult as I would now.

Honestly, that was a smart thing. Your mom gave you good advice.

Yeah, isn’t that funny? I did see Elizabeth Taylor as we were going into the….It was then done at a little theater. The awards were done at a little theater in Hollywood.

Pantages?

Yes, Pantages. That’s where it was. Yeah, also on Hollywood Boulevard, but she was coming out of the door, and we were going in. I thought of her as my favorite movie star… Yeah, anyway, and there she was like a princess. She was just so beautiful. Kind of thrilling.

Now, this is a toughie. I want you to concentrate, Ms. McCormack. What would you say if I said “what would you give me if I gave you a basket of kisses?”

Let’s see. I think I’d say “I’d give you a basket of hugs.”

Oh, wow. Oh, you made my day. You made my week. You made my month. I can’t believe I had a line reading with Patty McCormack from The Bad Seed. Wow. You gave me an early birthday present, and I can’t thank you enough. Thank you so much for that.

Thanks, David. My goodness. Thank you.

I know you did “Playhouse 90,” The Miracle Worker, and you played Helen Keller. How did that part come around?

Oh, boy. I was in Los Angeles, and I guess I don’t know. I think I used to get offers to do things. I think it was just basically that. It was an offer.

Were you ever considered for the part or did you audition for it?

No. No, I wasn’t. You mean for Miracle Worker?  No, because I was 11 when I did the TV show, and then I believe it was about a year, two years later that it came to Broadway.

Yes, in ’59.

Yeah, I believe ours was around ’57. So, in the two years that happened, I was 13 years old, and everything had been changing. I was too developed to play Helen Keller as a child anymore.  In other words, you asked why I didn’t go to Broadway? It was because I looked like a young woman by then. Isn’t that funny? I wasn’t a child actor anymore. I grew out of it. Well, Patty [Duke] was tinier. In life, she was tinier, and she played younger longer. Let’s put it that way. She played younger longer. We knew of each other, and then we knew each other, meeting later.

You worked with top headers. At a young age, you were played opposite Peggy Wood, Nancy Kelly, Eileen Heckart. I mean the list goes on, and on, and on.

Yes. It’s nice, huh?

Now, I know that you went back in ’59 on TV in “Peck’s Bad Girl.”

Yes.

Now, that didn’t last very long, and the movies that you made, like Kathy O‘, The New Breed, and The Explosive Years, they really didn’t break box-office records when the sitcom ”Peck’s Bad Girl” went off the air, weren’t you able to get, let’s say, Broadway roles that were more age-appropriate for you, not necessarily children’s parts?

Well, I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that honestly. We lived in Los Angeles and I went to school there, and life was then there, so Broadway wasn’t on the calendar.

I know you mentioned you have a family, children, and grandchildren, did having a family alter the trajectory of your having a broader movie career?

Yeah, well, it limited my wanting.

Did that affect your trajectory?

Yeah, I think probably choices. You make choices as you go along. Yeah, and my choice was such that I know the first time I went away on a tour theater-wise was after my kids were, don’t laugh, about 18. They were older because we weren’t apart during their growing up. It doesn’t mean I was glued to them, but I mean we weren’t living different lives. I was their mom.

Excellent.

Yeah. It was nice. Although, I was still me and did television, and they had babysitters for the times I worked and all that, but I didn’t go for stretches of time. I didn’t want to do that. I wasn’t able to. They probably would have been fine.

Your TV credits. My God. You started with “Rawhide,” “Route 66,” “Wagon Train,” “Murder, She Wrote,” “Dallas,” “The Ropers,” “Scandal,” “Desperate Housewives,” “The Sopranos.” Were any of these parts more memorable to you than other parts? Any of these stood out for you more than others?

I can tell you briefly that usually… I mean this sounds like bologna, but usually the job you’re in and the one you’re doing is the one that you’re invested in. When you ask, I mean there hasn’t been a person that I’ve worked with that hasn’t been exciting to work with.

That’s so generous of you to say. I can’t thank you enough for doing this interview. I want to wish you and your entire cast members the best of luck in Morning’s At Seven.

Thank you. Thanks for your interest too because that’s terrific. Thank you.

Morning’s At Seven will play a strictly limited run till January 9, 2022 and is a must-see show for this or any other season.

Edited by Scott Harrah
Published October 30, 2021.

Patty McCormack. Photo: Maria Baranova.

‘PECK’S BAD GIRL’: (Left to right) Wendell Corey, Patty McCormack, Ray Farrell & Marsha Hunt in the TV show, circa 1959. Photo: Wikimedia Commons.